Martin Atkins: Educator, Producer, Drummer of PiL, NIN, Pigface, The Killing Joke & Author of Tour:Smart
Tour:Smart and Break the Band by Martin Atkins, a must read for bands about to go on the road
I’ve never been in a band, and I’ve never been a producer or groupie, and I’ve never had what it takes to make it in a band. (Albeit my expert level singing and drumming skills on Rock Band) Lucky for those of you looking to embark on your first tour, there is an incredibly detailed guide on how to do it the right way. The book is called, Tour:Smart and Break the Band. The book was written by Chicago’s own Martin Atkins, and it outlines how to plan, manage and execute a successful tour on any level.
If you haven’t heard of Martin, you’ve surely heard of the bands he has played in including PiL, The Killing Joke, Ministry, and even Nine Inch Nails.
Without going to much into the details of the book, (It’s nearly 600 pages!) let’s just say that the book covers every single aspect of touring, all the way down to groupies, alcohol, drugs, screen printing, and using spreadsheets! I was recently lucky enough to ask Martin a few questions about the biz, and his book via email.
Tim: I read a quote from you where you mentioned that education was the new thing that drives the creative fire in your mind — something along those lines. Can you tell me a little bit about your school and yourself? What made you decide to start it?
Martin Atkins: Well, I started playing drums when I was nine, started drinking Newcastle Brown Ale and backing strippers at 11 or 12! I joined PiL [Public Image Ltd.] in 1979, performed on the seminal Metal Box album and the next four or so with them over the next 5 years. Then Killing Joke, Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Pigface, and Damage Manual. I started the label Invisible Records 20 years ago, built a recording studio, produced a bunch of stuff from Gravity Kills to Skinny Puppy; then, started teaching, went to China, made a documentary, and realized that the book they were using at Columbia for the Business of Touring class was written in 1962! So, I wrote Tour:Smart, then started to revamp a bunch of the courses there. Applied Marketing was a ton of work, but I’m really pleased with the results. I’m working on Band:Smart, the sequel to Tour:Smart, and another 16 days in China amongst many, many other things — and I have four young boys!
I decided to start the school because I saw a need for real world stuff in the classroom. I pitched the people at Columbia several times on allowing me to just bring all of my businesses up there: Label, book publishing, studio, music publishing, film production and all of that — but they didn’t seem to think it was a good idea. So, like I usually do, I just did it! Education — or, more correctly, the relationship and the conundrum of trying to show people an unexpected spark — really gets me going. I’ve loved teaching since the moment I started and I love trying to make my lectures entertaining — otherwise what’s the point?
The possibilities within this are huge and I find myself very excited to see what the future holds.
Tim: Your book is one of the most comprehensive guides I’ve ever read — of any kind. If you could write a second book, what would it be about? Post economic meltdown/apocalyptic zombie outbreak touring for dummies?
MA: Well thanks! I have nearly finished Band:Smart and, along the way, I’ve put 12,000 words down for the Killing Joke book and I’m working on the PiL one, and a new cool marketing book, too. I do need to get on the Zombie bandwagon, though!
Tim: What are a few of the indicators that it’s time to go on a band’s first nationwide tour? Should they be making money already locally? Should they have a good seed of money saved up?
MA: I think bands should let this stuff evolve organically. Get out to the next set of cities 20, 40 miles out — where fans might travel to see the larger shows; see the five-pointed star inward facing crush strategy! Keep heading out of town in a flower petal pattern. I like to say, “Returning home just in time to fall asleep at their day job!”…but seriously, that’s how hard you need to push it.
Don’t give up your day job until you are on the point of getting fired. And yes, a band should be able to go from a show with 10 people to 40 to 100 to 200 — something like that. If you can’t do that in amongst your local markets, then what makes you think you can do it 400 miles from home where you don’t know anyone? Can’t score any deals or free beer or a bunch of free copies because your mate works at Kinkos, ditto Starbucks etc., etc.
Tim: One of the most profound parts of the book Tour:Smart to me was the fact that running a tour was just like running any small business. The one item that stuck out to me was the use of spreadsheets! How important is it to be organized and keep track of your finances and information when running a tour or a small business?
MA: Well, it’s important — and it definitely fits into that category of not magic, but attention to this stuff enables more crazy magic to happen. For instance, when you start to track random crazy stuff, you learn — let’s say in the case of the sizes of the shirts you have sold. Maybe when you look at the information after 30 shows, you realize that the only size of shirts you sell are L and XL. So, you can stop making the dozen or so small and mediums that you have been wasting money on. Small stuff like that really start to add up.
Same thing with the guest list: Put it on a spreadsheet and take a printer out on the road with you. You can alphabetize and pump up the size of the font at the last minute to make sure — or try to — that there isn’t a problem. Easy shit to avoid, costly and time consuming to try and repair.
Tim: What advice would you give to a band that has a member that is “holding the band back”?
MA: Fire their ass immediately, or give me their phone number now and I’ll do it for you. There is so much working against you that if you know something isn’t right, you have to take care of it — because, rest assured, there are 10 other things fucking up your chances that you don’t know about.
Tim: If there was one gig that a band must take and one that they should avoid at all costs what would they be?
The venue that is too large: Don’t persuade yourself that you are big enough to fill it — you aren’t!
And the show for no money on a rainy Tuesday night at the last-minute because another band needs the help — and to borrow half of your equipment, and as many members of your audience as they can — and can you help with their van? And can they sleep at your house? But there’s no money and you have to play at 6:30 and don’t get a sound check — and you could pack that place on your own. If someone blesses you with the opportunity to do them a really big favor — then do it! This is a small world and what goes around, comes around — for sure.
Tim: What are your top three must do’s for a band trying to get exposure? Having an electronic press kit? Playing as many shows as possible? Having a quality EP? Merchandise?
MA: Err, you got it. And remember that free is the new black — give stuff away, treat your fans like they were your best friends — they are!
Tim: You had a great entry in Tour:Smart about getting sponsorships. Do you have any advice for companies trying to get their clothing to musicians they align their brand with? Is it a sound investment for smaller companies?
You have to be careful, but — as I say to bands — free is the new black. I have a bunch of ideas for you, but if you target national acts halfway through their tour and show up with some free — and clean! — shirts, then you will be heroes and the band and crew will wear your stuff for the next week!
Affliction put special, nice pillowcases on all of the pillows in Austin for South by Southwest. That was cool, and probably cost a bit, but there are ways to accomplish stuff like that without breaking the bank.
Tim: With Assault, we measure down to the penny sometimes with what we spend our money on. We try to do everything that we possibly can ourselves — see photography, web design, shirt design, accounting, SEO + online marketing, blogging, etc. etc. If there is an expense that’s worth paying for for bands playing relatively often on the local scene, what would it be?
MA: OK, in certain circumstances a buy on to a larger show can be a great idea — it can also be the worst waste of money. But, once again, if a band keeps good records of their sales and attendance — not how many people you wish were at the show, but the real numbers — then you can extrapolate and make decisions based on better facts rather than no facts.
I don’t mean this to sound like a plug for me — because I’m silly busy anyway — but a few bands have brought me in for a few hours or a day to really analyze what they are doing and consult to them on what they are doing right and wrong. Sometimes they are surprised when I call them out on some rock star bullshit or studio elitism stuff, or just their fears. I get to reinforce the good ideas, accelerate them, pour gasoline on them — and put ice down the pants of the insane, distracting shit that many bands surround themselves with, immerse themselves in. And, compared to losing everything — your love of music, your credit rating, your friends, your van and your partner — I’m cheap as fuck!
Tim: If there was one or two careers that would really help you supplement a career in music — as most parents would want for their aspiring musicians — what would it be? I wrote a post on this a while back and someone suggested “car mechanic” — I couldn’t believe that I hadn’t thought of that.
MA: Yeah, mechanic is great. Studio person, logistics, web, PR, screen printing — anything — welding, culinary, all of that stuff comes in handy. Xbox modding, hair cutting, tattoo — it’s all great shit and the more skills, the more chances you have of tapping into a new audience and involving them in your music.
Tim: Of all the touring you’ve done, which tour was the most fun and why?
MA: Well, it seem like it’s the ones from way back. PiL across the USA in 1981 when we did American Bandstand — they still play it in Europe! I was very young and drunk, and speeding through most of it. I had no clue how much it all cost — none of us did really — but, 30 years later, it seems like it was fun.
Parts of Ministry was fun. Lots of Killing Joke. From a drumming point of view, I was at the height of my game — I did Pigface, Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, Killing Joke and Murder, Inc. all in a mad two-year period. I was drumming all the time.
Pigface was just fantastic in the breadth of the onstage experience: Sitars, cello, harp, belly dancers — Danny Carey from Tool!
I liked touring Europe with Killing Joke — Madrid, Barcelona — oh yeah! — and Japan and Australia.
I guess, every minute of it was terrific! Why, well, someone else — mostly — paid for it. And I’ve forgotten all of the horrible mind-numbing horror!
Tim: What’s the weirdest thing that ever happened to you while you were on tour?
MA: A guy came onstage with a shopping cart all hooked up with pickups and all this mad stuff. We [Pigface] were all really excited. It sounded like a shopping cart! I nearly pissed my pants onstage.
Tim: Of all the skills you mention in Tour:Smart — screen printing, learning HTML, accounting etc. — which proves to be the most valuable in putting together a tour for your band?
MA: You need every single one of them. You can split them up between the band members — that’s a great idea — but you need them all, and more!
Tour:Smart by Martin Atkins, a must read for bands about to go on the road
I HIGHLY recommend Martin’s Book, Tour:Smart: And Break the Band, to anyone who’s in a band. The book includes insight from other musicians, tour managers, producers, sound technicians, booking agents, and just about anyone and everyone involved with the music industry. The book also features guest chapters from Henry Rollins, and Chris Connelly.
I’d also check out the Tour:Smart Plus weekend events going on in October. (Check out the first Tour:Smart Plus Weekend wrap up here.) Martin’s school is called Revolution Number Three which you can check out at their Official Website.
If you’d like to keep up with Martin, or talk to him via the internetzzzz you can @reply him on twitter via @marteeeen. Ask him what he thinks about girlfriends, bacon salt, music, word of mouth marketing, and just about anything else!
Like this post? Bookmark it!
Email to a friend
Your message has been sent!
Please enter a valid email.
Your email failed. Try again later.
Related Posts
Most Popular
About the Author
Tim is the co-owner of Assault, and tends to think he can party twice as hard as anyone. Follow him on twitter @assaultEmail this Author | All posts by tim
Once again a GREAT article and interview! Makes me want to start a band.
[...] see a little about Martin Atkins and his book please click here and here and [...]